No one celebrates it here of course. I'm going to try to make a turkey day dinner for Jan, since he's never had one. Just have to find turkey, cranberries, and pumpkin :-P
I've had three days of class so far and I'm loving it. We're starting with the basics but moving very fast. We're expected to learn the new words on our own, with a dictionary in our various languages, and then we learn how to apply them to sentences in class. We do a -lot- of listening and talking in class, which is great.
Dutch classes at JBI have 8-16 students, and ours has 10. I like small, since it makes it easy to get to know each other. 2 are from China, 1 from Egypt, 1 from Russia, 1 from Poland, 1 from Kazakhstan, 1 from South Africa, 1 from Indonesia, 1 from Colombia, and 1 from the US (me)! Everyone happens to speak passable English, so the instructors use English to explain new words or more complicated concepts. Most of the first lesson was in English, but by the third lesson most instructions were in Dutch, and understandable.
Most of us speak some Dutch already. Some have been here for several years, but were in English-language school or working at a job that didn't require Dutch. Only one showed up in class speaking no Dutch at all (from China to study communications) but is keeping up with things well enough. We all have prior university education, except for two who are learning Dutch so they can go into regular university classes.
To speak Dutch well enough for a job or university classes, we have to be at the B2 level. The JBI classes for level A, B1, and then B2 each last about 2 months, and are scheduled to start a week or two after the previous level ends. If all goes well, I'll be speaking acceptable Dutch by June 2011 :-) That's 6 months at the intensive rate, but 12 months at the normal rate. Both rates are designed for people with university education or qualified for a university education. It probably takes a lot longer with the ROC classes, but I don't know how long.
Both of the teachers for the class are very experienced and enthusiastic. One wrote the book we're using, and the other is very good at focusing on pronounciation. I've been using my electronic translator (Franklin 1870 with Dutch-English Bookman card), and it's been great so far. The only words I haven't found aren't on Google Translate either. The teachers focus on regular speech ... rarely formal, and with a lot of commonly used slang instead of too-proper terminology.
There's a big computer lab in the building, plus a separate language lab for speaking and listening. I don't have any homework to do today while waiting for class to start (got it done yesterday), so I'll check out the computer lab instead.
Thursday, November 25, 2010
Monday, November 22, 2010
Taalcursussen (Language Classes)
Today I start language classes, in about 6 hours. Jan drove us to my bus stop near the university on Saturday, so I would recognize the stop when I got close to it. We also walked from the bus stop to the building with my class, since it's a bit of a windy path through a residential neighborhood. Most of it is alongside a canal on one side, and back yards on the other side of the path. Nice and scenic, with lots of ducks - we even saw one albino duck!
The part of campus the building is on is "only" about 100 years old. The university itself has been around since 695 A.D. As an American, the concept of buildings and institutions that old is a bit overwhelming. We just don't have the context for it back in the US. There's newer buildings too, but most of them do an acceptable job of mimicking the style of the building from 1912. For some reason there's a huge square in the middle of the buildings filled with gravel. A little weird, but Jan thinks it might be used for riding horses.
On the way home from our exploratory outing, we stopped at Blokker (a local for small home items) and bought a reusable water bottle. I should probably find something I can take for a snack, since I'll be out of the house for 6.5 hours or so. Jan has class tonight as well, lasting til 9 or so, so I'll take the bus home instead of getting a ride with him after he gets off work.
Looking forward to meeting people! It sounds like the people taking classes at the James Boswell Institute are the more educated type, with less educated folks getting classes at the local ROCs (community colleges). People posting in foreigner forums had indicated that both the students and the teachers in the ROCs are typically lacking motivation to learn or teach Dutch, and those classes make slow progress. So I guess it's lucky for me they have separate classes for the more educated, but it's disappointing that motivated but uneducated students get stuck in those ROC classes.
The part of campus the building is on is "only" about 100 years old. The university itself has been around since 695 A.D. As an American, the concept of buildings and institutions that old is a bit overwhelming. We just don't have the context for it back in the US. There's newer buildings too, but most of them do an acceptable job of mimicking the style of the building from 1912. For some reason there's a huge square in the middle of the buildings filled with gravel. A little weird, but Jan thinks it might be used for riding horses.
On the way home from our exploratory outing, we stopped at Blokker (a local for small home items) and bought a reusable water bottle. I should probably find something I can take for a snack, since I'll be out of the house for 6.5 hours or so. Jan has class tonight as well, lasting til 9 or so, so I'll take the bus home instead of getting a ride with him after he gets off work.
Looking forward to meeting people! It sounds like the people taking classes at the James Boswell Institute are the more educated type, with less educated folks getting classes at the local ROCs (community colleges). People posting in foreigner forums had indicated that both the students and the teachers in the ROCs are typically lacking motivation to learn or teach Dutch, and those classes make slow progress. So I guess it's lucky for me they have separate classes for the more educated, but it's disappointing that motivated but uneducated students get stuck in those ROC classes.
Saturday, November 20, 2010
Cards!
On Thursday I recieved my bank card, OV card, and letter to get my residence card in the mail. w00t! I'm feeling extra Dutch now. The OV card is for public transport. I'll start using it Monday when Dutch classes start. The residence card is quite cool, and I can use that instead of my passport as ID. Which is nice, because ID is required if police ask for it, and passports are just a bit too clunky.
I also got my book for class on Friday. I leafed through it and could understand most of it. Fortunately it looks like a practical approach of using Dutch versus memorizing rules and such.
Now that I have my resident card we can get a refund for the cost of the language class. We emailed my inburgerer to let her know we're ready for another appointment. Still have trouble believing there's free, quality, Dutch language classes :-P Sweet.
I also got my book for class on Friday. I leafed through it and could understand most of it. Fortunately it looks like a practical approach of using Dutch versus memorizing rules and such.
Now that I have my resident card we can get a refund for the cost of the language class. We emailed my inburgerer to let her know we're ready for another appointment. Still have trouble believing there's free, quality, Dutch language classes :-P Sweet.
Tuesday, November 16, 2010
Birthday Partay
We had Jan's birthday party on Saturday, and his parents and sister came over. Parents came over around 2pm and we had coffee (of course!), and pie and chatted for quite a while, then got out some snacks: cheese cubes, sliced sausage, crackers, and some antipasto stuff. His mother showed me a book they had ordered with his sisters wedding pictures from a few months ago - instead of driving away in a special car after the ceremony, they rode away on a special bike, with the the husband pedaling and her sitting sideways on the rack on the back wearing a wedding a dress. Very Dutch!
One slightly different thing about the birthday party was that Jan's parents each also wished me a happy Jan's-birthday, after wishing him a happy birthday. His mother also gave me first triple cheek kiss. Right-left-right I think. She understands my American-ness and doesn't expect triple kissing in return :-P
His sister came over near 5pm, bringing a lot of food and two presents for Jan. The big one was a table-side wok set for 6 people, with a big hotplate and 6 little wok pans. Apparently this is a fairly common thing to do in the Netherlands, and was a ton of fun. The food his sister brought was stir fry ingredients, similar to the US except for the addition of potato balls. Potato balls are pretty common in the supermarkets, and are just chunks of potato that are small enough to cook quickly.
After dinner we had more coffee and chatting, and they left a bit past 8pm. I'm pretty sure Jan gets his naughtiness from his father. He's usually very reserved, but once in a while teasing his wife in silly ways.
Today I'm hoping my transit card, bank card, resident card letter, or language class book arrives. So many cool things to wait for :-)
One slightly different thing about the birthday party was that Jan's parents each also wished me a happy Jan's-birthday, after wishing him a happy birthday. His mother also gave me first triple cheek kiss. Right-left-right I think. She understands my American-ness and doesn't expect triple kissing in return :-P
His sister came over near 5pm, bringing a lot of food and two presents for Jan. The big one was a table-side wok set for 6 people, with a big hotplate and 6 little wok pans. Apparently this is a fairly common thing to do in the Netherlands, and was a ton of fun. The food his sister brought was stir fry ingredients, similar to the US except for the addition of potato balls. Potato balls are pretty common in the supermarkets, and are just chunks of potato that are small enough to cook quickly.
After dinner we had more coffee and chatting, and they left a bit past 8pm. I'm pretty sure Jan gets his naughtiness from his father. He's usually very reserved, but once in a while teasing his wife in silly ways.
Today I'm hoping my transit card, bank card, resident card letter, or language class book arrives. So many cool things to wait for :-)
Saturday, November 13, 2010
Busy Days!
We had a storm come through on Thursday, which is also Saint Martin's Day here. It's the Dutch equivalent of Halloween, though the kids sing certain songs for candy instead of threatening to throw eggs. The weather was hideous though, and only one pair of children came to the door - during a brief torrential downpour with a very wet mother trying to cover all three of them with an umbrella.
Jan had his birthday, but we didn't go out to dinner as planned because I spent the same day with a stomach virus doing really awful things to me. His parents and sister are coming over today for a celebration, and have something mysterious planned for dinner. Jan picked out pie halves for his birthday - it's traditional for the birthday boy to host his own party and provide the food.
We made it to the inburgering appointment yesterday ... barely on time even though we got to the general area with half an hour to spare. Finding parking was a nightmare. Next time we're going straight to a parking lot that isn't too far away and just planning on a bit of walking :-P Anyhow, the appointment went wonderfully. First the woman explained the process (which I already understood pretty well) and suggested I take intensive classes and aim for taking the State Exam at level B1 or B2. From what I understood, the minimal level needed for inburgering, A2, isn't sufficient for getting a job or anything. Basically just survival Dutch.
Because I have no resident card, they can't pay for the classes for me yet, but she said they'd arrange a refund of the class fees as soon as my card comes in. Jan signed me up for the class online while we were there and paid a bit over 1000 euros. It's a 3 month course with 100 hours of class time scheduled. It should get me to the point where I could pass the A2 exam, but instead of taking that I'll go onto B1 and B2 classes. City funding for the classes might end in a year or so, hence it's good to do it now. It also turns out that not all cities partially fund the classes, so I'm lucky to be in a city that does :-)
We also ordered my book online. I mentioned the price to Jan (only 30 euros!) and the woman said a lot of people complain about how expensive it is. We told her what I was paying for law school books (about $2000 per year), and she was a bit appalled. The only downside to the classes is that they're in Utrecht at Utrecht University, instead of a local community college. So Jan ordered a bus pass for me, and I managed to find a decent bus route. One that goes directly from here to there with no transfers and about a 10 minute walk at each end. The only downside is that it's a route designed for commuting to work, so mostly leaves from here in the morning and leaves from there in the evening. My classes start mid-afternoon, so it'll get me there 2 hours early, but classes get out about when Jan gets done with work, so I can ride home with him :-) I can use the 2 hours to study somewhere I suppose. It's either that or take 2 buses and 1 train to get there.
The websites for the bus companies aren't the greatest. Getting a schedule for a route requires doing virtual backflips around the site for a while, and some of the times get cut off by other crap on the website and are impossible to see. Maybe they just don't like Firefox.
Anyhow, the classes start in about a week! Very fast (almost too fast), but it's either then or wait until February. I'm tired of waiting :-P
Jan had his birthday, but we didn't go out to dinner as planned because I spent the same day with a stomach virus doing really awful things to me. His parents and sister are coming over today for a celebration, and have something mysterious planned for dinner. Jan picked out pie halves for his birthday - it's traditional for the birthday boy to host his own party and provide the food.
We made it to the inburgering appointment yesterday ... barely on time even though we got to the general area with half an hour to spare. Finding parking was a nightmare. Next time we're going straight to a parking lot that isn't too far away and just planning on a bit of walking :-P Anyhow, the appointment went wonderfully. First the woman explained the process (which I already understood pretty well) and suggested I take intensive classes and aim for taking the State Exam at level B1 or B2. From what I understood, the minimal level needed for inburgering, A2, isn't sufficient for getting a job or anything. Basically just survival Dutch.
Because I have no resident card, they can't pay for the classes for me yet, but she said they'd arrange a refund of the class fees as soon as my card comes in. Jan signed me up for the class online while we were there and paid a bit over 1000 euros. It's a 3 month course with 100 hours of class time scheduled. It should get me to the point where I could pass the A2 exam, but instead of taking that I'll go onto B1 and B2 classes. City funding for the classes might end in a year or so, hence it's good to do it now. It also turns out that not all cities partially fund the classes, so I'm lucky to be in a city that does :-)
We also ordered my book online. I mentioned the price to Jan (only 30 euros!) and the woman said a lot of people complain about how expensive it is. We told her what I was paying for law school books (about $2000 per year), and she was a bit appalled. The only downside to the classes is that they're in Utrecht at Utrecht University, instead of a local community college. So Jan ordered a bus pass for me, and I managed to find a decent bus route. One that goes directly from here to there with no transfers and about a 10 minute walk at each end. The only downside is that it's a route designed for commuting to work, so mostly leaves from here in the morning and leaves from there in the evening. My classes start mid-afternoon, so it'll get me there 2 hours early, but classes get out about when Jan gets done with work, so I can ride home with him :-) I can use the 2 hours to study somewhere I suppose. It's either that or take 2 buses and 1 train to get there.
The websites for the bus companies aren't the greatest. Getting a schedule for a route requires doing virtual backflips around the site for a while, and some of the times get cut off by other crap on the website and are impossible to see. Maybe they just don't like Firefox.
Anyhow, the classes start in about a week! Very fast (almost too fast), but it's either then or wait until February. I'm tired of waiting :-P
Wednesday, November 10, 2010
Inburgering Progress
Well, still no resident card. But Jan finally called IND and they said my card has been ready since Sept 9th, but the distributor hasn't gotten around to sending it to the Utrecht office for us to pick up. ETA: 4-8 weeks. Bureaucracy (in) action!
The call was triggered by another notification of an appointment with the local integration agency. The last one turned out to be largely pointless because they didn't want to proceed without my resident card, in case I was just pretending to be someone with the same name and face whose passport I'd stolen, for the devious purpose of getting integrated without being required to.
Jan then called the integration agency to let them know I'm still cardless for the foreseeable future. After much discussion, they called him back to say that bringing the acceptance letter would be sufficient, so we don't have to reschedule again and wait a couple more months.
So hopefully on Friday my Dutch abilities will be assessed and I'll be informed of where I can take classes suitable for my current Dutch abilities and past education level. Or they'll change their mind about letting me integrate before I get my resident card, and we'll get annoyed and go shopping while we're in the city center anyhow.
The call was triggered by another notification of an appointment with the local integration agency. The last one turned out to be largely pointless because they didn't want to proceed without my resident card, in case I was just pretending to be someone with the same name and face whose passport I'd stolen, for the devious purpose of getting integrated without being required to.
Jan then called the integration agency to let them know I'm still cardless for the foreseeable future. After much discussion, they called him back to say that bringing the acceptance letter would be sufficient, so we don't have to reschedule again and wait a couple more months.
So hopefully on Friday my Dutch abilities will be assessed and I'll be informed of where I can take classes suitable for my current Dutch abilities and past education level. Or they'll change their mind about letting me integrate before I get my resident card, and we'll get annoyed and go shopping while we're in the city center anyhow.
Monday, November 8, 2010
Electronic Translators
My mom and step-dad wanted to get me an electronic handheld translator (vertaalcomputer), and they sent me the Franklin Explorer 12 Language Translator FR-TJS12. While decent for traveling as a tourist, with a nice selection in the phrase book, it had a very limited vocabulary. Even very simple, basic words are missing. The FR-TJS12 is about as big as my passport, though thicker, and seems sturdy enough. It has far fewer words than my small-ish hardcopy dictionary.
I did some research, and as far as I can tell, every multi language translator has few words in it. The more languages, the fewer words per language, so one catering just to the languages you want is likeliest to be the most useful and affordable. A multi-language model would be practical for someone vacationing briefly in several places in Europe. The price is typically around $30.
Finding translators that have a lot of words in just two languages is not very easy, unless you're interested in Spanish. Finding Dutch-English ones is quite hard.
The first I looked at was the ones be Ectaco. Then I read about their customer service problems, and ran away screaming. They do look like good products on paper, but if there is a problem with anything (like the translator arriving with a dead battery), getting it replaced will be a nightmare. They also call them "talking" bilingual dictionaries, but forget to mention anywhere that some languages aren't available with that feature. Thai is one that doesn't talk, and I found a list of emails from one poor guy getting jerked around by Ectaco customer service for a couple years, saying they'd be adding an update for Thai speech. Does Dutch talk? I have no idea. I haven't been able to find a review of that particular model. Not that I care about the speech functionality, but it makes it hard to trust any of their claims. It also isn't clear if the irregular verb feature is available in both languages or just English. Prices start at the high end of the reasonable range, which is more than I want to risk.
iTravl is another one that looks good on paper and got horrible reviews everywhere I looked. Bad battery problems, bad speech, bad speech recognition, etc. And very expensive!
I finally settled on two items from Franklin that they don't sell directly from their website. The 1870 dictionary, with the BQN-2047 bookman card. The 1870 has been replaced with new dictionaries that do the same thing but cost more, according to the reviews. The one I bought (DMQ-1870) comes pre-loaded with various English language software: dictionary, thesaurus, crossword solver, idioms, quotations, etc. A slot in the back allows for the insertion of any Bookman card - so I could also get an English-French card for $20-40 in the future if I decide I want it. I like the Bookman approach, since it's expandable without paying to buy a new device. SMRT.
Dutch Bookman cards are not easy to find. In fact, I could only find the Dutch-English card at Dutch websites, and it may even be disappearing from those if/when Franklin stops making them. In fact, the first place I ordered it from, c-device.com, emailed me to let me know it was out of stock. They tried to talk me into buying their in-house product that would be available in a few weeks, but I didn't want to wait that long and was a bit wary of a product I haven't seen any reviews for. To their credit, they refunded the money very quickly once I made it clear I wanted a refund, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them in the future.
So I bought the 1870 and BQN-2047 from pcmedia.nl, a Dutch company located nearby. The 1870 is a little wider and longer than the multi-language model. The multi-language one might fit into pants' pockets when standing up, but the 1870 wouldn't. It's still small enough to fit into my coat pockets easily. It's also light weight and has a sold feel to it - not flimsy.
The screen of the 1870 is big, and has good resolution. About 12 lines of text fit in the display from top to bottom, and over thirty letters from side to side. This is much much much better than the multi-language one, which has a display for 3 lines of text under 25 letters each. The multi-language one is simply too small to get an entire definition in it, and looking up words and scrolling is VERY slow. Like 5-10 seconds every time. The 1870, on the other hand, is quite fast unless it can't find the word. When that happens, it will take a few seconds to search for similar words in case you misspelled something.
Unfortunately, the Dutch card only has conjugations of English words on it. So I can look up an infinitive form of a Dutch word (like gaan - going), but not a conjugated form (like gaat - goes). This is the biggest disappointment in the Dutch-English card for me. Looking up a conjugated word form is the best use I'd have for a dictionary, and I can't do it at all with this item. But as far as I can tell, no dictionaries have that function in Dutch. Oh, and there's no speech at all with the Dutch-English card. I'm not bothered by that really, but it's a bit weird. Perhaps Franklin will come out with improved cards some day :-)
I did some research, and as far as I can tell, every multi language translator has few words in it. The more languages, the fewer words per language, so one catering just to the languages you want is likeliest to be the most useful and affordable. A multi-language model would be practical for someone vacationing briefly in several places in Europe. The price is typically around $30.
Finding translators that have a lot of words in just two languages is not very easy, unless you're interested in Spanish. Finding Dutch-English ones is quite hard.
The first I looked at was the ones be Ectaco. Then I read about their customer service problems, and ran away screaming. They do look like good products on paper, but if there is a problem with anything (like the translator arriving with a dead battery), getting it replaced will be a nightmare. They also call them "talking" bilingual dictionaries, but forget to mention anywhere that some languages aren't available with that feature. Thai is one that doesn't talk, and I found a list of emails from one poor guy getting jerked around by Ectaco customer service for a couple years, saying they'd be adding an update for Thai speech. Does Dutch talk? I have no idea. I haven't been able to find a review of that particular model. Not that I care about the speech functionality, but it makes it hard to trust any of their claims. It also isn't clear if the irregular verb feature is available in both languages or just English. Prices start at the high end of the reasonable range, which is more than I want to risk.
iTravl is another one that looks good on paper and got horrible reviews everywhere I looked. Bad battery problems, bad speech, bad speech recognition, etc. And very expensive!
I finally settled on two items from Franklin that they don't sell directly from their website. The 1870 dictionary, with the BQN-2047 bookman card. The 1870 has been replaced with new dictionaries that do the same thing but cost more, according to the reviews. The one I bought (DMQ-1870) comes pre-loaded with various English language software: dictionary, thesaurus, crossword solver, idioms, quotations, etc. A slot in the back allows for the insertion of any Bookman card - so I could also get an English-French card for $20-40 in the future if I decide I want it. I like the Bookman approach, since it's expandable without paying to buy a new device. SMRT.
Dutch Bookman cards are not easy to find. In fact, I could only find the Dutch-English card at Dutch websites, and it may even be disappearing from those if/when Franklin stops making them. In fact, the first place I ordered it from, c-device.com, emailed me to let me know it was out of stock. They tried to talk me into buying their in-house product that would be available in a few weeks, but I didn't want to wait that long and was a bit wary of a product I haven't seen any reviews for. To their credit, they refunded the money very quickly once I made it clear I wanted a refund, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy from them in the future.
So I bought the 1870 and BQN-2047 from pcmedia.nl, a Dutch company located nearby. The 1870 is a little wider and longer than the multi-language model. The multi-language one might fit into pants' pockets when standing up, but the 1870 wouldn't. It's still small enough to fit into my coat pockets easily. It's also light weight and has a sold feel to it - not flimsy.
The screen of the 1870 is big, and has good resolution. About 12 lines of text fit in the display from top to bottom, and over thirty letters from side to side. This is much much much better than the multi-language one, which has a display for 3 lines of text under 25 letters each. The multi-language one is simply too small to get an entire definition in it, and looking up words and scrolling is VERY slow. Like 5-10 seconds every time. The 1870, on the other hand, is quite fast unless it can't find the word. When that happens, it will take a few seconds to search for similar words in case you misspelled something.
Unfortunately, the Dutch card only has conjugations of English words on it. So I can look up an infinitive form of a Dutch word (like gaan - going), but not a conjugated form (like gaat - goes). This is the biggest disappointment in the Dutch-English card for me. Looking up a conjugated word form is the best use I'd have for a dictionary, and I can't do it at all with this item. But as far as I can tell, no dictionaries have that function in Dutch. Oh, and there's no speech at all with the Dutch-English card. I'm not bothered by that really, but it's a bit weird. Perhaps Franklin will come out with improved cards some day :-)
Monday, November 1, 2010
Language, Education, and Tolerance
As a warning to not take anything I say too seriously, I've only been in the Netherlands for three months, and I don't get out much. I live in a quiet residential middle-income neighborhood. I'm blond-haired, blue-eyed, and pasty white. My experience may radically deviate from that of other immigrants in the Netherlands.
Today I was reading an online newspaper article from back home (Seattle) discussing the experiences of a couple families that had recently immigrated from Bhutan. It was an Uplifiting Piece, as newspapers are wont to publish when it's been a slow day. Family X moved from Bhutan 2 years ago, the teenage daughter loved having opportunities and was gaining confidence in speaking English, and her mother was regularly attending language classes.
Three people had made comments: 1) Teenage girl is hawt. 2) Fix the real problem and end the instability in Bhutan in an unspecified manner, with the implication that emigrants should fix their unstable countries instead of fleeing persecution. 3) Why's the mother taking so long to learn English? Why aren't they speaking only English at home to learn it faster?
It's comments like those that make me an apologetic American. I am an American and I'm not ashamed of being an American, but I would like to apologize for my idiotic fellow-Americans that simply do not know better, can't be arsed to educate themselves about a subject, and are convinced their first gut reaction is right regardless of any contradictory evidence with which they are presented.
Learning a language does not happen overnight, even when immersed in it. People take classes because classes help, a lot. Not all people learn at the ideal speed of gaining competence in a year. Older people immigrating from third-world countries have probably not had much experience with a formal education, and their brains are not accustomed to having a lot of info shoved at them all at once.
I had three years of Spanish classes and still don't speak it as well as I speak Dutch after 15 months of Rosetta Stone and 3 months of Dutch TV. Let's face it, most language instruction in the US follows the same formula, and doesn't work very well without a LOT of studying and rote memorization. Of course, that's the American attitude toward education in general: we've been using rote memorization for decades, and even if it doesn't work very well at least it's familiar so let's keep doing it.
So why did Idiot #3 think someone should speak sufficient English after a year or so? Probably because she has no experience learning a language and doesn't like non-European immigration and it was the only part of the article that was even vaguely vulnerable to criticism. Speaking only English at home? Give me a break! I'd go nuts if we only spoke Dutch at home. First of all, I can't communicate sufficiently for us to handle the essentials of living together. Second of all, it's enough to deal with a new country and culture and crappy TV programs without adding more stress by not being able to talk to anyone in a meaningful (or therapeutic) manner. It's probably 100 times worse for people coming from a non-western country after living in a refugee camp for a decade or two. Immigrants -want- to learn the language. We also want to adjust in a manner that doesn't sacrifice our sanity.
Based on posts I've seen both on American and Dutch sites, it's not uncommon in either country to be unhappy with immigrants that are slow about integration. But individuals' tolerance toward immigrants seems quite a bit higher in the Netherlands. For starters, the government takes proactive steps to encourage and help immigrants learn Dutch. Nearly free language classes! Integration appointments where someone talks to you about the process and what happens, and what's expected of you as an immigrant.
Both countries have the same expectations of immigrants, but they are approached very differently. In both countries, there is a widespread social expectation that immigrants will integrate to some extent. In the US, there is no official requirement that immigrants try, and no official support. There are no taxpayer funded classes available to the majority of immigrants. In the Netherlands, there is. The Netherlands provides immigrants, especially poor ones, an essential opportunity that the US does not.
What's the likely effect of these different policies? Immigrants in the Netherlands learning Dutch quickly and able to work productively. Immigrants in the US unable to speak much English after decades of living there, and maybe able to work in an ethnic restaurant or martial arts studio, but more likely living in poverty and raising their children in poverty, surrounded by poverty, and starting a cycle that is difficult to break in the so-called Land of Opportunity.
Which brings up another issue: how people treat immigrants on an everyday basis, versus rants on blogs and newspaper sites. Speaking non-English in public in the US often results in various levels of hostility, even if racism isn't a factor. Here it usually results in someone speaking English to me, or smiling politely and apologizing to me before leaving ("sorry" is the same in both English and Dutch). Worst case scenario, they keep talking to my fiance then pause so he can translate for me.
Why so different? Maybe because Dutch society is more tolerant in general. More likely because all Dutch people under the age of 60 or so and over the age of 12 were required to learn a second language in high school. And while they know it's possible to learn a second language very well, they also know that it's not easy and it takes time. Ignorance results in ignorant reactions.
Today I was reading an online newspaper article from back home (Seattle) discussing the experiences of a couple families that had recently immigrated from Bhutan. It was an Uplifiting Piece, as newspapers are wont to publish when it's been a slow day. Family X moved from Bhutan 2 years ago, the teenage daughter loved having opportunities and was gaining confidence in speaking English, and her mother was regularly attending language classes.
Three people had made comments: 1) Teenage girl is hawt. 2) Fix the real problem and end the instability in Bhutan in an unspecified manner, with the implication that emigrants should fix their unstable countries instead of fleeing persecution. 3) Why's the mother taking so long to learn English? Why aren't they speaking only English at home to learn it faster?
It's comments like those that make me an apologetic American. I am an American and I'm not ashamed of being an American, but I would like to apologize for my idiotic fellow-Americans that simply do not know better, can't be arsed to educate themselves about a subject, and are convinced their first gut reaction is right regardless of any contradictory evidence with which they are presented.
Learning a language does not happen overnight, even when immersed in it. People take classes because classes help, a lot. Not all people learn at the ideal speed of gaining competence in a year. Older people immigrating from third-world countries have probably not had much experience with a formal education, and their brains are not accustomed to having a lot of info shoved at them all at once.
I had three years of Spanish classes and still don't speak it as well as I speak Dutch after 15 months of Rosetta Stone and 3 months of Dutch TV. Let's face it, most language instruction in the US follows the same formula, and doesn't work very well without a LOT of studying and rote memorization. Of course, that's the American attitude toward education in general: we've been using rote memorization for decades, and even if it doesn't work very well at least it's familiar so let's keep doing it.
So why did Idiot #3 think someone should speak sufficient English after a year or so? Probably because she has no experience learning a language and doesn't like non-European immigration and it was the only part of the article that was even vaguely vulnerable to criticism. Speaking only English at home? Give me a break! I'd go nuts if we only spoke Dutch at home. First of all, I can't communicate sufficiently for us to handle the essentials of living together. Second of all, it's enough to deal with a new country and culture and crappy TV programs without adding more stress by not being able to talk to anyone in a meaningful (or therapeutic) manner. It's probably 100 times worse for people coming from a non-western country after living in a refugee camp for a decade or two. Immigrants -want- to learn the language. We also want to adjust in a manner that doesn't sacrifice our sanity.
Based on posts I've seen both on American and Dutch sites, it's not uncommon in either country to be unhappy with immigrants that are slow about integration. But individuals' tolerance toward immigrants seems quite a bit higher in the Netherlands. For starters, the government takes proactive steps to encourage and help immigrants learn Dutch. Nearly free language classes! Integration appointments where someone talks to you about the process and what happens, and what's expected of you as an immigrant.
Both countries have the same expectations of immigrants, but they are approached very differently. In both countries, there is a widespread social expectation that immigrants will integrate to some extent. In the US, there is no official requirement that immigrants try, and no official support. There are no taxpayer funded classes available to the majority of immigrants. In the Netherlands, there is. The Netherlands provides immigrants, especially poor ones, an essential opportunity that the US does not.
What's the likely effect of these different policies? Immigrants in the Netherlands learning Dutch quickly and able to work productively. Immigrants in the US unable to speak much English after decades of living there, and maybe able to work in an ethnic restaurant or martial arts studio, but more likely living in poverty and raising their children in poverty, surrounded by poverty, and starting a cycle that is difficult to break in the so-called Land of Opportunity.
Which brings up another issue: how people treat immigrants on an everyday basis, versus rants on blogs and newspaper sites. Speaking non-English in public in the US often results in various levels of hostility, even if racism isn't a factor. Here it usually results in someone speaking English to me, or smiling politely and apologizing to me before leaving ("sorry" is the same in both English and Dutch). Worst case scenario, they keep talking to my fiance then pause so he can translate for me.
Why so different? Maybe because Dutch society is more tolerant in general. More likely because all Dutch people under the age of 60 or so and over the age of 12 were required to learn a second language in high school. And while they know it's possible to learn a second language very well, they also know that it's not easy and it takes time. Ignorance results in ignorant reactions.
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